I have a ton. I only need a switch for this, not a thermostat. However, I scoured the internet and found some that will. To HAVE a neutral, we want the line voltage to come to our switch box first. But then I realize the downstairs receptacle is missing the neutral wire. My other option would be to use a Z-Wave controller at the transformer and just leave the old 2 wire toggle on all the time. Copyright 2022 IOT & Smart Technology Review & Buyer guide. Yes. However, it is very important that you confirm that your dimmable smart switch will work with the type of light bulbs you plan to use many will only work with outdated incandescent bulbs. However, that introduces the new problem of figuring out what to do with the existing switch (heres some ways to solve it). Regardless, you should be able to configure the switch for use as a simple on off. I suppose the added complexity would make it more expensive. The Caseta switch works with Wink and theCaseta Smart Bridge(the Caseta Smart Bridge allows the switch to interface with Alexa,Apple HomeKit, andGoogle Home). Describe the wiring in the ceiling box. the 2477D is what you are suggesting correct? And if the Shelly app isnt good enough for you, you can go full geek and install custom firmware. However, I dont think it works with LEDs. Therefore, if theres no neutral in your switch box, the light fixture will have one. I have 6 of them installed due to my old house which also has some knob and tube and also several (not all) switches with no neutral. Therefore, you install the Shelly 1 relay behind the light fixture where there is a neutral. Thanks again Stus! And Whys it so Important for Your Smart Thermostat? Inovelli switches are great. Each switch comes with an bypass adapter for low power bulbs, which is both convenient and cost-saving. I was able to make cleaner connections with less bulk on the 6 - 14 AWG wires. Alternatively, you can buy asmart switch no neutraland install it. The Cooper Aspire has Z-Wave technology so it should work with a number of hubs. And I dont care about its load limitations since I wont even use the load wire. But, if you want easy installation and the option for colored lights, buying bulbs could be better. So, if you dont have a neutral at the switch, you can use one of these compact smart switches installed at the light fixture. If you open your switch box and you see two white wires joined with a wire nut (not connected to the switch), you can be fairly sure your switch has a neutral wire. If there are multiple bulbs in the fixture, the total load is the sum of the load of all bulbs. Also notice the transformer has a line coming from the center which has a voltage of 0V. Although the ground wire can function as a neutral wire, it is never advisable to use this option. The key is the dimming feature, which turns the flow of power between the light and the switch down to a slight trickle. The setup takes quite a bit more work than the Lutron or C by GE systems, but these Inovelli switches are way more powerful from a home automation standpoint. If thats the case, the two black wires (hot and load) get connected to the new switch and a third wire connects the white wires to the neutral terminal on the new switch. The case that everyone refers to when they say no neutral is when the line voltage comes to the light bulb first. May 24, 2016 in Questions and Answers. Works perfectly without neutral, so I think it does a good job at solving the no neutral smart lighting dilemma. I have ordered 4 Fanlincs for them, but now I need a switch that I can run the 4 fans from. It still has pieces of the original knob and tube electrical wiring nailed to the floor joists in the basement. Thats because most modern smart switch brands dont require a neutral wire. Installing a dimmer with any light fixture has multiple benefits. If it were as simple as making R1 the correct resistance to make sure the light cant turn on when the switch is off, it would be a fairly simple problem to solve. I think I am in love. Many architects designing homes and commercial structures now opt to put a dimmer switch to enable controlling the lighting systems. Our top pick is theLutron Caseta WirelessSmart Home Dimmer Switch. All rights reserved. When the light is being used, the battery is recharged. If youre going to be installing your own smart switches, you will be working with some potentially dangerous wires, so its probably a good idea to know what youre dealing with so you can avoid making a stupid mistake. Notice that the voltage difference from end A (+120V) to end B (-120V) of the transformer is a total of 240V. I bought the CE Smart Home Wi-Fi Smart dimmer light switch. Then when the light is off, the switch wifi runs off the battery. A device I just got and I think is lovely is Shelly 1L. (At least it was my topic to go off of ; ). Im not sure if that works with LEDs, a lot of smart switches I see on sale (with no neutral) doesnt require hubs. Most home automation experts recommend smart switches over smart bulbs. By installing a dimmer switch, you can manage the radiance and ambient light intensity in any room. Sometimes it might even require cutting into drywall, which then needs to be patched and painted. The dimmer switch allows you to control the brightness of the lights to change the rooms ambiance. Thats how the switch will respond to the commands or settings you relay via your smartphone app. We recommend the Lutron Caseta Wireless dimmer (read our detailed review here) we have these installed in our setup and they are working very well. And, if none of those are what youre looking for, theres always smart bulbs. I quit buying incandescent bulbs years ago. I did not want to have to spend the extra on a hub, especially after purchasing new fixtures, so I Googled and found your article and even though the reviews for the C were quite mixed, decided to try it and if it didnt work, could return it. When the fitting has multiple bulbs, or when the switch controls multiple fittings. LEDs?). For starters, you can consider calling in a trained electrician to run a new wire through the wiring system. It doesnt need the neutral to come alive, apparently. Instead, you could buy a smart bulb. Most of my switches are regularSwitchLinc dimmers (with neutral wire), and I was hoping to find out if a 2 wire SwitchLinc dimmer (no neutral wire) would operate without a load (only line wirehooked up, load wire capped off). Since the neutral has a voltage potential of 0, it is significantly safer to work with than the hot wires A and B. Hi, I like your suggestions and diagrams. If theres no power to thermostat wires, you need to resolve the problem ASAP. Users wanting to link more than 10 bulbs to the dimmer will have to get the Hue bridge. No, the dimmer's red load wire is capped, that is, it's not connected to anything at all. These brands include Inovelli, Lutron, and C by GE. R1 needs to restrict the current enough so that the light bulb doesnt turn on when the switch is off. One common problem for new smart home users is that they want to install some smart switches to control lighting, but their existing light switches dont include a neutral wire. Powered by Invision Community, Ceiling Fan Control with 2 wires no Neutral, Currently Retired: 4 yrs USAF, electrician, photographer, auto mechanic, mathematics teacher, AP Statistics reader, more. A neutral wire connected to the switch completes the circuit and keeps electricity flowing to the switch. Can control a Load if the Red wire is connected and not capped off. If the power is cut (because the switch is off) the smart switch will not be able to receive instructions from the hub. Um, hopefully Im not messing upthe model names (Im on mobile), because Im not trying to refer to the colour of the switch at all. Im still waiting for their techs to figure out why their webpage wont accpt the password that I chose on their app But mainly price. sorry to revive this again. It is too complex to waste time describing. These don't seem to be the best strategies. trying to light 2 fixtures with 3 t8 florescent ea. Understanding the thermostat wire color code is one of the first steps in any DIY wiring project. A switch box with no neutral loop will usually only have three wires (see image below). Before the electricity can be used in your home, it needs to be converted to a lower voltage. I get what you were saying now, but when I added the 3 other fans and an always hot receptical it got complicated. Thankfully, the electrical has been updated since then. Of course, Shelly is not the only brand that makes mini smart relays like this. This helps to fund the ongoing development of the site. The second option is to have the power enter the switch box and then proceed to the light fixture. This option is probably the most work and most unnecessary. It seems everyone misses the obvious: Dont put the controller in the switch box. Ive read on this board that this switch steals power from the load to operate, which I never understood since the load has no power half the time (and relies on the switch to give it power). I have alexa which I have just been using for basic lists and other bs. Totally off topic, but I switched from wire nuts to WAGO Pushwire connectors. (When I used X10 stuff, they had a purely wireless switch [no wires at all], but I dont know if that exists in the smart home environment yet). HELP is appreciated. No need for screwdrivers to replace the batteries. The only negative is that it adds an extra inch or two of length to the bulb which could cause problems in an enclosed area. Not sure if I really needed to replace the LED fixtures, but I like the newer ones better and may still be able to return the 2-year-old ones to HD with my receipt. Modern-day homes typically have this switch connected to their light fixtures. In this case you will not have a neutral wire and your existing configuration will look like this: The reason that some smart switches wont work in this configuration is that the switch is breaking the circuit when it is off so power is not flowing through the switch. Ive been using Lutron switches for over two years, and I dont remember a single time when I pressed the button and the light didnt come on. You dont necessarily need to buy a smart switch. He told me they were probably not compatible with a dimmer, so I replaced the light fixtures and tried the dimmer switch again myself, since he told me that the ground usually has enough power in it to keep connected to wi-fi. If you dont have a neutral wire, several options are open to you. GE makes a C by GE series that work well but they are not zigbee like these illumination switches. I have two of these in my home and they are the only two left to make smart. You can disregard any ground wires. Ive used the Shelly relays and they work really well. Smart switches require a source of power because they are always communicating with a hub. 2474DWH is not the right dimmer to use as it does not have black, white and red? If you want to use smart switches and dont have a neutral wire in your switch box, you canhire an electricianto run a neutral wire between the light fixture and the switch. The power will still be coming from a dimmer right. It simply screws into the socket before the bulb. Now, the problem I havent figured out is what kind of controller to put in the light box to switch the light. It can be done, but pulling wires through finished walls can be a real pain, especially if you dont have the proper tools. I could direct hard wire an always hot to the Fanlincs and control from an 8 switch remote set in the former switch housing. Most single LED bulbs are under this threshold. The process is somewhat complex and time-consuming, but possibly the best way to go about it. My existing switch box does not have a red wire. One way to wire a light switch is to have the power source wiring enter the light fixture directly and the switch is used to complete a circuit. The transformer converts the incoming 13.2 kV electricity down to a usable 240V. It also needs to be turned off from the switch. 5 Awesome Smart Gadgets That Will Break Your Wallet. Load has to be an Incandescent or 120 Volt equivalent halogen bulb. I used the + and symbols to represent the different phases. But it needs to be manually turned on. That's all you need. If the only wires in the switch box are black and white, then white is the line and black is the load. But, a few manufacturers have developed smart switches that you can install in older homes with outdated wiring systems. Then cap off the Keypad red load wire. My issue is that the wiring from the Pool Light (Pentair Intellibrite) runs to the transformer by the pool equipment, then just has simple in/out lines to a switch in the house, no neutral, or ground for that matter. You cannot use a dimmer switch on these LED lights or you will damage them. You can choose to use them with cloud integrations or without (local control only). Did you ever end up writing a review of the Inovelli switch? If you havent bought any Lutron products before, the best way to save a little money is to buy a starter kit bundle. A neutral wire can be added by pulling an additional conducting wire between the fixture and the switch. When I turned all off, one would remain on, go off several seconds after the others then 3 would come on after that it was a mess, reset them all a few times, ungrouped them, nothing changed. Why cant they just make a no-neutral smart switch with a small battery in it? Here are my two main requirements for a no neutral smart switch: Believe it or not that narrows down the field quite a bit. Theres a leftover traveller wire I can repurpose as an always-on line, but the 2474D wont come alive unless I touch itsneutral to the receptacles ground (I didnt leave it that way!). R1 represents the load required to power the smart switch. Thats not good because we need R1 to be on all the time but we dont want the light to be on all the time. Nest Note N260 Error Code: What is it and How to fix It? Install FanLincs in the other three fans. All C by GE, not off brands. Do any of these work with switched outlets? But manufacturers responded to demand, and now theres a handful of good ones available. It has nearly everything you could want in a smart switch. Instead, it has phases. In this case, the neutral (white) wires are connected inside the switch box. ea 32wt. You should be able to so since - and if I am not mistaken - 2474DWH is 2474D in WHite. Youll economize on power bills and get the right amount of brightness you need at a given time after installing a three way dimmer switch. I may live to regret it, but those things are amazing for speed and accuracy. Typical electrical transmission lines in the United States have high voltage electricity (13.2 kV which equals 13,200V!). For example, I have a dual 30A relay on my water heater connected to esp8266. Setting up the device this way will allow it to draw power directly to communicate with the hub. There are dimmable smart switches on the market that can be installed without a neutral wire. Youll likely come across three wires when you open the wall socket. You need to change that so that white is neutral and black is line. Make sure to wear protective gloves and use a multimeter to test the wires for a current. I declined to add it to the list because they dont appear to work with LED bulbs. Also forgot to mention the issues with too many wifi connections. They will usually be colored one black and one white (potentially with black stripe or marked with black electrical tape). Your email address will not be published. If you want smart control of your lighting, and your home has switch boxes with no neutral, you have 4 options: When smart switches first came out, it was hard to find a good no neutral switch. At that point, why wouldnt you just buy a smart bulb? Set lights to automatically adjust with seasons, Works with Alexa, Apple HomeKit, and the Google Assistant, Set a schedule for your lights to turn off when you're not home, Alexa and Google Home Compatible - no hub required, Stelpro Maestro Line Voltage Smart Thermostat Reviews, The Evolution of IoT in automotive industry, Install Smart Thermostat at home Complete Guide, No power to thermostat wires 5 Reasons You Have to Know. You can also use an off the shelf wifi switch (with or without neautral, depending on the switch) to turn on and off 120v to the coil on a $10 contactor (like used in HVAC except those are usually 24vAC). If you dont have a neutral at the switch, then you will have a neutral at the load (light fixture). I dont believe this ever met code (nec). I could be wrong about that though. smithlevenson, I searched Amazon for a dimmer that would work without a neutral but the C by GE never came up, only those that needed hubs, or more. And while not preferred, it is perfectly legal. If you have switch boxes without a neutral wire, theres no need to panic. Is there a way to do a three way smart dimmer switch with LED lights, compatible with SmartThings and no neutral wire? However, due to complexities caused by AC power, its not a simple problem to solve when it comes to powering LED bulbs. I was going crazy with one of my switches that had no neutral. They are easier to setup than Inovelli and cost less than Lutron. The most exciting feature of advanced smart thermostats is that they can inform you when and why theres a malfunction. Absolutely! Thermostat C Wire How to check if you have one? Your email address will not be published. I know, I know that the surface area of the push in connectors is much less than the wire nuts, but for a 4 fan installs over my head 10' ceilings with a small box they were life savers. As an Amazon Associate, theIOTpad.com earns from qualifying purchases. Depending on the wires in each switch box, some wires need to be connected differently then they currently are, but no new wires are needed. Universal Devices, Inc. I have an always on receptacle in the mix. It will not work with anything else. There are a few other smart dimmers that work with no neutral, but I didnt list because they dont work with LED lights. Same thing in the fixture box. When youre checking a light switch neutral wire, exercise extreme caution. Plus GE doesnt sell daylight brightness smart bulbs, not of the more reputable manufacturers do, the soft white yellowish brightness reminds me on when I was a kid. If you are changing a light bulb its decidedly dangerous. This is the neutral. Investing $50 in the Lutron hub is totally worth it. Then, from the switch box another loop goes out to the load (light bulb or whatever). Thats why the options are so limited for smart switches that work with no neutral. Even if you have asmart switch no neutral, you can install it. The Shelly products are WiFi so you wont need another hub. This is the best picture I could find to illustrate the no-neutral situation. so even when the switch is open, there is power to the light socket. NOTE: Alternating current (AC) does not have polarity. I don't really need all the Fanlinc control other than for setting scenes (and to annoy my wife by automating everything). Ie Chandelier type with 5 candle bulbs, or multiple recessed lights in a kitchen (12 bulbs in my kitchen, all switched on together). Tried other off brand smart bulbs and they all failed within a few months. Only the FanLinc is connected to the loads, light and fan. This article suggests no more than 45 connections: https://www.actiontec.com/wifihelp/wireless-network-capacityhow-many-devices-can-connect-wifi-network/. Even with LED bulbs (must be marked as dimmable), the lights can be dimmed to almost nothing. I also installed a exhaust fan that includes a bluetooth speaker built into the fan casing. I was finally able to make sure I matched the name in Alexa to the name I named it in the GE app, and removed the one in Alexa that had a problem and everything is working as it should now. Again, regardless of whether the switch is on or off, there is a clear path from line to neutral that includes R1. So, when you see the Nest Error N260, youll know that its missing a C wire. What actually happens in these cases is that the hot wire and neutral from the breaker panel go directly to the fixture box. Suitable for households with multiple members using the dimmer switch. Unfortunately, I still have a few switch boxes that dont have a neutral. Between the three listed (Lutron, Inovelli, and C by GE) in this article, you should be able to find one that fits your needs. Just like Lutron, make sure you get the dimmer switch since the on/off switch will NOT work with no neutral. You can control multiple scenes, smart bulbs, and even setup smart notifications using the onboard LED. A smart switch is much more convenient, only one connection to worry about, not several. Works even without your home automation systems, Users can carry the dimmer switch around much like a portable remote. At the same time, it needs to let enough current through so that the switch can power itself. However, it also has dimming functions which probably wont work with the florescent lights. The wire that does not display a reading is the neutral wire. It was horrible, the lights even though grouped together the would not work in sync. If you think you may not have a neutral wire, simply purchase a smart switch that doesnt need one. I will re-read a few times and see if your solution mitigates the dimmer issue, or have you tested this set up? In summary, if you have an older style house, you might still be able to turn it into a Smart Home without having to rewire the whole house. Regular SwitchLinc dimmers work without the load wire attached to anything but do these?
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